From: Magnus Berg (McMagnus@home.se)
Date: Wed Nov 06 2002 - 19:56:51 GMT
Hi Steve
You wrote:
> Let me clarify. I'm not sure we disagree. I use the word "thing" to
> represent patterns of value only to make a point because I think there is
> consensus that material objects are not to be categorized in the levels. My
> point is that no pattern of value can be classified. There are types of
> value, but not types of patterns of value.
>
> As you say an eatable thing must be composed of both biological and
> inorganic value. A particular pattern of biological value and inorganic
> value might form a hamburger, for example. So the hamburger can then not be
> classified as only biological or only inorganic. It is a pattern of value,
> period. A person must be composed of all four types of value. (Even a
> hamburger has all four types in a way.) A particular person is a particular
> pattern of value. (But I would rather say that a person has a capacity to
> value in all four ways.)
>
> Since the moq considers thoughts and ideas to be real, I have attempted to
> work with an extended definition of "thing" to be "any pattern of value."
>
> I did this because people were discussing whether "democracy" is a social or
> intellectual value. IMO categorizing "democracy" is just as inappropriate
> as categorizing a material object since a material object and democracy are
> both patterns of value and so just as "thingish" in moq terms. (But I would
> rather say that democracy can be valued in a social way and in an
> intellectual way.)
>
> Perhaps some "things" actually are just one type of value. Is a rock only
> inorganic value? But if a particular rock is where the chief in the tribe
> traditionally sits, then does it not also have social value? (In Platt's
> terms it does not have social awareness and is therefore inferior to the
> chief. I agree that it is on a lower level of awareness but it still has
> all four types of quality to some degree even if it is a really really low
> degree.)
>
> The idea of democracy (or any idea) may be thought of as pure intellectual
> value while democracy as it is played out in society is pure social value.
>
> Perhaps, democracy has all four types of value as well. It has low
> inorganic value for its lack of physical form, but this low value is not a
> lack of value (or perhaps really high inorganic value since it is free of
> the laws of nature). It has social value in its ability to preserve society
> and it has biological value in that it preserves the society that helps
> protect life from the forces that seek to destroy life. As an idea it has
> intellectual value by definition.
>
> Am I making any sense?
Oh yes! You're making very much sense to me. I guess I've missed it if
you have elaborated on your extended "thing" definition. Do you have any
particular posts in mind? I'd be interested in reading them.
Magnus
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