From: David Morey (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Sat Sep 04 2004 - 10:26:22 BST
Scott
that book is in my pile too, a big influence on
Sheldrake apparently. Rupert Sheldrake has read both of Pirsig's
books too! So he is in the Lila squad.
DM
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:05 AM
Subject: Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science
> David M,
>
> > how do you see memory being involved in this?
>
> My guess is that episodic memory (memory of specific events) is perception
> of past, still existing events, though since it isn't sense perception, we
> can tell the difference from present events. You mentioned a while back
> Bergson's "Matter and Memory", and I've been meaning to take a look at it,
> but haven't yet. I did read something that sounds like what I am getting
at
> in "Time and Free Will", where he speaks of duration as something
> irreducible, but I don't remember the details.
>
> - Scott
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott Roberts" <jse885@earthlink.net>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: MD MOQ and Logic/Science
> >
> >
> > > Mel,
> > >
> > > Interesting, but it doesn't address the issue which mainly concerns
me,
> > > which is that most of the operations you lay out here require
something
> > > unthinkable, namely the interplay between the eternal and the
temporal.
> > For
> > > example, one needs to be eternal to actually use something that has
been
> > > stored, or to detect a difference between anything. Abstraction
requires
> > > eternity, as does reflection, and so forth.
> > >
> > > - Scott
> > >
> > > > mel:
> > > > Consider consciousness as at base awareness, "of-ness not here", as
> the
> > > > sense
> > > > of "here-ness" is pushed by new data, new pre-information.
> > > > How is "here-ness" pushed by "of-ness not here"? By the discernable
> > > > portion of the physical, initially photons, vibration, mass /
energy,
> > > change
> > > > in a
> > > > level or intensity in a matrix or variation.
> > > >
> > > > Felt by reactive portions of "here-ness", the qualities of
push-ness
> > are
> > > > stored to the capacity of the system united in here-ness. To the
> > particle
> > > > the quality of push-ness is stored as reaction, direction, and
> velocity.
> > > To
> > > > the larger organization of particles, the push may alter topology,
> force
> > > > rearrangement, break bonds or make bonds, enlarge or delete
portions,
> > > > as well. To systems of particles in dynamic balances,
non-destructive
> > > > push-ness may add or subtract from the dynamic balance of here-ness,
> > > > and sacrificial or compensatory levels of balance arise.
> > > >
> > > > The tendency of physical organization of information (recognizable
> > > > physical meaningful data) within systems of system in cascading
> > > interactive
> > > > dynamic balance may yield extreme complexity in storage of the
> qualities
> > > > of push-ness. Crystalline structures within depositional processes
in
> > > > geological provinces, photosynthesis in green plants, blink of the
eye
> > > > against too much brightness.
> > > >
> > > > For 'biologicals'; tropisms, instincts, learning, are patterns of
> stored
> > > > recognition of qualities of push, built up over time as alterations
> and
> > > > processes. In the animal, the recognition of qualities of push
> > accelerate
> > > > to the point of recognition of patterns of qualities as information
> > stored
> > > > and recognized as senses. Specialized discernability and
> detectability
> > > > tempered by experience (memory of qualities of push) allows
effective
> > > > use of data as information in rapidity of response.
> > > >
> > > > Greater complexity recognizes greater ability to store information.
> > > >
> > > > Organization of information is compounded by pattern and connection.
> > > >
> > > > Pattern and connection give rise to information about information,
> > > > abstraction.
> > > >
> > > > Abstraction of abstraction allows reflection.
> > > >
> > > > Reflection models information and models the modeling of information
> and
> > > > recognizes a system as a discernable, differentable, defensible
> > structure.
> > > >
> > > > Accumulations of abstracted abstractions are mapped to symbols and
> each
> > > > possible here-ness of sufficient complementary complexity interpret
> and
> > > > exchange them.
> > > >
> > > > Cogito ergo sum follows as an acceptable conclusion of such a
system,
> > > which
> > > > only works in the splendid isolation of a cathedral of the mind in
> > > imaginary
> > > > separation. A model of comparative movement called time arises.etc.
> > > >
> > > > When the doors and windows of the cathedral are thrown open and the
> > > > uninterrupted "here-ness" shines warmly from within, the fact of the
> > non-
> > > > division, the dependent discernment of "here-ness" from "of-ness not
> > > here",
> > > > the unfiltered sense of push-ness gives rise to free action, flow of
> > > > information
> > > > unbent. Qualities of the static become the scaffold, the structure
> > > > accreting around
> > > > "here-ness", enabling greater ranges of the qualities of the dynamic
> to
> > be
> > > > perceived
> > > > and used, as information or as action.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Amen.
> > > >
> > > > thanks--mel
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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