RE: MD Making sense of it (levels)

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Thu Jan 23 2003 - 03:48:53 GMT

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    Howdy:

    Again, just one quick point. (Can you tell that I'm pressed for time?)

    > PIRSIG:
    > Both "the genius" and the mentally retarded person are at the social
    > level.
    >
    > GLOVER:
    > Could you elaborate on what you mean by being "at the social level"?
    >
    > PIRSIG:
    > My statement that "Both 'the genius' and the mentally retarded person
    > are at the social level." is intended to refute the statement that "the
    > genius appears to be on a higher evolutionary level" A person who holds
    > an idea is a social entity, no matter what ideas he holds. The ideas he
    > holds are an intellectual entity, no matter who holds them.
    >
    > That quashes DMB's theory that, "The whole point of making
    > distinctions between levels of static patterns is to demonstrate that
    > people are NOT at the same levels."
    >
    > Actually, the difference between the social and intellectual levels is the
    > difference between outer groupthink (what everybody says) and inner
    > mindthink (what I say), both considered "subjective" in SOM and thus a
    > constant source of moral confusion.

    Steve:
    It's nice to know that Pirsig considers all people to be social entities,
    but it would be much more helpful to understand how he distinguishes a
    biological entity from a social entity and a social entity from an
    intellectual entity in general.

    DMB says:
    Hmmm. I don't recall ever seeing this before. Pirsig's comments are from
    Lila's child, I suppose? I'd have to look at the full context of the
    statement to say for sure, but it seems to me that what Pirsig is saying
    here is that the distinction between levels does not hinge upon mental
    deficits or talents. He's refuting the idea that "smart" people are more
    evolved, but rather the ideas themselves are more evolved. The ideas
    themselves are the intellectual static patterns. It just so happens that
    there is a strong correlation between intellectual values and intellectual
    people simply because they're more able and/or more willing to hold ideas.

    Thanks,
    DMB

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