From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Mon Nov 22 2004 - 02:31:50 GMT
Sam and all people of value:
Lila's Child, Annotation 29:
"The MOQ, as I understand it, denies any existence of a "self" that is
independent of inorganic, biological, social or intellectual patterns. There
is no "self" that contains these patterns. These patterns contain the self.
This denial agrees with both religious mysticism and scientific knowledge.
In Zen, there is reference to "big self" and "small self." Small self is the
patterns. Big self is Dynamic Quality."
dmb says:
in the MOQ there is no "self" other than the patterns. This denial agrees
with science and mysticism. Isn't this also a denial of the 'soul' you have
not discussed here, but appears in your essay, Sam? And now, dear reader,
please recall that the MOQ, science and mysticism all agree on this denial
as we move on to this....
Lila's Child, Annotaion 130:
"The word "I" like the word "self" is one of the trickiest words in any
metaphysics. Sometimes it is an object, a human body; sometimes it is a
subject, a human mind. I believe there are number of philosophic systems,
notably Ayn Rand's "Objectivism," that call the "I" or "individual" the
central reality. Buddhists say it is an illusion. So do scientists. The MOQ
says it is a collection of static patterns capable of apprehending Dynamic
Quality. I think that if you identify the "I" with the intellect and nothing
else you are taking an unusual position that may need some defending."
To which, Sam said:
In Ann 130 above he seems (to me) to be _contrasting_ the MoQ with Buddhism
and science, and says that the 'I' or the 'self' is "a collection of static
patterns capable of apprehending DQ". In other words, there is a "thing" (ie
pattern of value) which corresponds to what we mean by 'person'.
dmb says:
CONTRASTING the MOQ with science and Buddhism?!? No. He's contrasting the
MOQ with Ayn Rand's Objectivism and with other views that put the
"individual" at the center of reality, as I imagine your essay must be
doing. He's saying that you and Rand gotta lotta explainin' to do. He's
saying that such a position defies science, mysticism and the MOQ. And he's
not saying that there is no such "thing" as a person, or persons, he's just
saying that such "things" are NOT the central reality.
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