From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jan 09 2005 - 15:29:45 GMT
dmb)See what I mean? If your life depended upon correctly guessing what the
point is here, what would be your guess?
Chin)That fundamental truths are known directly, and are non-sensory
intuitive. Cultural impositions such as the philosophy and religions of
Western civilizations are psychological barriers of descriptive wordings
imposed upon us by the time we reach 18.
"Common sense is intuitive; enough of it is genius." (George) Bernard Shaw
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Buchanan" <DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 08, 2005 11:33 PM
Subject: RE: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
> MSH, Chin, Scott and all MOQers:
>
> Here is Pirsig in LILA page 377:
> "He thought some more about Lila's insanity and how it was related to
> religious mysticism and how both were integrated into reason by the MOQ.
He
> thought about how once this integration occurs and DQ is identified with
> religious mysticism it produces an abalanche of information as to what
> Dynamic Quality is. A lot of this religious mysticism is just low-grade
> 'yelping about God' of course, but if you search for the sources of it and
> don't take the yelps too literally a lot of interesting things turn up."
>
> The following two statements are from Pirsig. Both are taken from
> correspondence with Anthony McWatt by way of Paul Turner. (Thanks guys):
>
> "Things themselves" is an old subject-object metaphysical presumption.
> The MOQ denies there are "things themselves" that are independent of
> value. On close scientific examination "things themselves" always turn
> out to be a relationship between other things."
>
> "The characterization of the Buddha's world as "nothingness" has been a
> source of Western confusion, leading some to consider Buddhist nirvana
> as a form of suicide. What is meant by Buddhist "nothingness" is no
> "thingness" that is, "no objectivity". Since the use of the undefined
> term "Quality", denies objectivity without suggesting some kind of
> vacuum, it helps to clarify what Buddhist nothingness is."
>
> Here is Pirsig in Lila's Child p.348:
> "Quality in the MOQ is monistic and thus is not the same as Kant's
> "thing in itself" which is the object of a dualism."
>
> "In Zen training, meditation is used to dissipate static intellectual
> blockage. Complete removal of all static blockage constitutes
> enlightenment." [Pirsig, Sept 16th 2004]
>
> Pirsig in ZAMM p143:
> "In all of the Oriental religions great value is placed on the Sanskrit
> doctrine of Tat tvam asi, "Thou art that," which asserts that everything
> you think you are and everything you think you perceive are undivided.
> To realize fully this lack of division is to become enlightened."
>
> From the Guidebook to ZAMM, p22:
> "In the spiritual traditions of both East and West - I am thinking not
about
> particular religions, but about the mystical element to be found in them
all
> - we find the claim that eventually one must let go of the activites of
> thought and imagination in order to enter a region of consciousness that
> such symbolic activity cannot reach."
>
> Here's Alan Watts in his "MYTH AND RITUAL IN CHRISTIANITY":
> "mysticism ...of this kind involves a far more acute awareness of the
plain
> evidence of the senses than is usual, and that, so far from retreating
into
> a subjective and private world of its own, its entire concern is to
> transcend subjectivity, so that man may 'wake up' to the world which is
> concrete and actual, as distinct from that wich is purely abstact and
> conceptual. Those who undertake this task unanimoulsly report a vision of
> the world startlingly different from that of the average socially
> conditioned man - a vision in whose light the business of living and
dying,
> working and eating, ceases to be a problem. It goes on, yes, but it ceases
> to be the frantic and frustrating pursuit of an ever-receding goal,
because
> of the discovery that time - as ordinarily understood, is an illusion.
>
> Yet another consequesnce of this acute awareness of the real world is the
> discovery that what has been felt to be one's 'self' or 'ego' is also an
> abstraction without reality - a discovery in which the 'mystic' oddly
joins
> hands with the scientist who 'has never been able to detect any organ
called
> the soul'. That which takes the place of the conventional world of time
and
> space, oneself and other, is properly described by negatgions - 'unborn,
> unoriginated, uncreated, unformed' - because its natue is neither verbal
nor
> conceptual. In brief, the 'seers' of this realty are the 'disenchanted'
and
> 'disillusioned' - those who are able to employ thoughts, ideas, and words
> without being spell-bound and hypnotized by their magic."
>
> See what I mean? If your life depended upon correctly guessing what the
> point is here, what would be your guess?
>
> Thanks in any case,
> dmb
>
>
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