From: hampday@earthlink.net
Date: Tue Feb 01 2005 - 06:17:14 GMT
Hello Joseph (and all) --
I'm pleased to see that there's some genuine philosophy going on here amid
all the left/right wing polemics. It was Scott Roberts, I believe, who
started this thread on 1/29 by posting the following assertions:
> The MOQ differs from Kant in that it does not assume that the conceptual
> structure is fixed and necessary, but keeps the idea that it is conceptual
> structure (static intellectual patterns of value) that cuts us off from
> reality (DQ). The MOQ claim that DQ is "pre-intellectual" is a Kantian
> pattern. The main conceptual structure that produces non-real appearances
> is the subject/object form.
>
> Hence the MOQ includes both types of A/R distinction, the Kantian and the
> mystical. That is, it advocates a mystical program of putting intellectual
> SPOV to sleep in order to experience reality. So in this means of getting
> back into touch with reality, it also reinforces the Kantian duality
> between the conceptual and reality. As James, and most philosophies of
> mysticism have done since Kant.
I don't know where the term "pure experience" originated, but assume that it
came from Pirsig and not Kant who applied "pure" only to reason. In fact, I
don't know of anything in the life-experience that can be considered "pure".
Even the taste of plain vanilla is a combination of sweetness and an
ethylated butter-like flavor.
What piqued my interest was the distinction noted by Scott, and echoed by
all of you, between appearance and reality. I find it strange that there
seems to be no support in this discussion for the proposition that
appearance IS reality. Would that not be the true empirical view --
including the view of MoQ whose author claims an empirical foundation?
Kant argued convincingly, I think, that because certain aspects of
experience -- namely, quantity, quality, relation and modality -- are
synthetic (pre-intellectual) and necessary to human understanding, there is
no way of judging their applicability to objects transcending experience.
This does not mean that Kant rejected an "ultimate" reality beyond
experience, but simply that our rational perspective prevents us from
defining it. For all practical purposes, then, experience IS reality, which
is to say that all metaphysical propositions are necessarily hypothetical.
Now in response to Scott's assertion that the MoQ accepts a "conceptual
structure" (SQ) which "cuts us off from reality" (DQ), you have sought to
express this metaphysical divide as it applies to four belief systems using
an "analogous" logic with which I'm unfamiliar, although I'm mentioned as
number four in your list. Thus, in your 1/30 posting, you say:
> IMO logical positivism is the pattern using inorganic and organic as the
> evolutionary analogue.
>
> Metaphorical existentialism is the pattern using the social level as the
> evolutionary analogue.
>
> Analogical pragmatism is the pattern using the intellectual level as the
> evolutionary analogue.
>
> I have no idea what Ham Priday is using as the analogue 'essentialism'.
I'd like to be able to provide the missing "evolutionary analogue", Joe, but
am frankly confused by your terminology.
If by "evolutionary" you mean the process by which objective reality is
thought to evolve, then I can accept your analogous definitions for logical
positivism, existentialism, and (possibly) pragmatism, as all of these
philosophical perspectives are based on a finite, dimensional reality
(beingness) which is the object of experience. As such, they avoid the
Kantian premise that space/time relations are "intellectualized constructs",
which I also happen to believe. Therefore, it seems to me, your defined
analogues are applicable only to an SOM philosophy in which the experiential
modality is "evolutionary", that is, perceived as occurring in time.
Whether it also includes MoQ, despite the author's denial, is apparently
still in contention.
The reality of essentialism is Essence, which (I assume) would qualify as
your "analogue". Inasmuch as Essence is absolute, uncreated and
undifferentiated, I can say without reservation that it is non-evolutionary.
I should also note that Essence is not an SOM existent and is not
experienced objectively. Inasmuch as it is incapable of direct experience,
most of you are likely to regard Essence as nothingness. While that would
be a "reasonable" conclusion, remember that rationality (Pirsig's
"intellect") is precisely what creates the problematic dilemma.
All metaphysical theories are hypothetical. I have postulated Essence as
the antithesis of nothingness. This gives Essentialism a distinct advantage
over MoQ: it is emphatically a non-empirical philosophy. It is also free of
the contentious arguments and suppositions having to do with the SQ/DQ
split. The only "split" in my philosophy of Essence is differentiation
itself. And that is due to the "negational nature" of Essence which is the
primary cause of existence.
For two years I held out hope that Mr. Pirsig or Paul Turner or Anthony
McWatt -- SOMEBODY in this forum -- would see the light and admit to a
primary source for the MoQ. Sadly, I've had to abandon that hope. It would
appear that belief in a supernatural reality requires a 'leap of faith' that
is unseemly for a post-modern philosophy.
And so a brilliant idea is lost in endless speculation and confusion.
Essentially yours,
Ham
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