RE: MD Whither "direct," "pure," and "immediate"?

From: Dan Glover (daneglover@hotmail.com)
Date: Mon Mar 14 2005 - 05:44:29 GMT

  • Next message: MarshaV: "RE: MD Whither "direct," "pure," and "immediate"?"

    Hello Matt

    Thank you for giving me a good chuckle. But really, I don't understand the
    misunderstanding on this point. Of course there is no such thing as direct
    experience in the way we perceive the world although direct experience may
    refer to something like this:

    The other day Marsha sent a post pertaining to the blues and a documentary
    she had just rented. I started to reply but she used HTML in her message (a
    violation of moq.org rules, btw) and it frustrated me so that I just gave
    up. But it set me to thinking. Please allow me to share...

    I like baseball and on some really nice summer mornings, rather than going
    to work, I'll jump a train to Chicago and be sitting in the bleachers at
    Wrigley Field drinking beer and munching a couple hotdogs in time to catch
    batting practice. The experience is much more direct than watching a game on
    tv. First of all, I don't own a tv, and second, watching tv you just get to
    see what the camera shows you. Now, being there at the ballgame might be
    called direct experience in a literary sense perhaps but philosophically it
    isn't. I'm still processing the experience through my senses, filtering it,
    ignoring most of what I experience in favor of what I deem important.

    In my opinion, Robert Pirsig makes this clear when he talks of how we are
    suspended in language and culture. So even though there are instances where
    Mr. Pirsig and Anthony too writes of immediate or direct expereince, I
    believe it's intended more in the sense of being at the ballgame versus
    watching it second handedly on tv. I hope this helps explain what I mean
    when I say there is no direct experience, only a rememberance of the moment
    past.

    Thank you for your comments,

    Dan

    >From: "Matt Kundert" <pirsigaffliction@hotmail.com>
    >Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >To: moq_discuss@moq.org
    >Subject: MD Whither "direct," "pure," and "immediate"?
    >Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 21:55:38 -0600
    >
    >Dan,
    >
    >I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
    >
    >Dan said:
    >Ontologically speaking, experience is never direct.
    >...
    >The MOQ begins with experience, not pure experience, just experience.
    >
    >Matt:
    >Okay, correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the distinct impression that
    >the words "direct" and "pure" were consistently used qualifiers for
    >experience throughout Pirsig's work, Northrop's work, and throughout
    >Anthony's work. And I was under the impression that some people
    >(including, for the most part, Pirsig) thought they were important, played
    >some role in the way we read Pirsig.
    >
    >In fact, I just finished my review of Anthony's essay on the forum and most
    >of it revolves around criticizing the use of these qualifiers.
    >
    >Are we suddenly giving up on these terms? If we are, I don't think we
    >should obscure the sea change that would be involved in interpreting
    >Pirsig, at least the change in the dominant opinion, particularly given
    >that much of my critique of Pirsig in the last few years has revolved
    >around these terms and I've received much animated derision over my
    >"misunderstanding" of Pirsig.
    >
    >Don't get me wrong: I hope my interpretation becomes the dominant,
    >mainstream interpretation. But I was under the impression that I was the
    >minority and offering a dissenting opinion, not the dominant ideology.
    >
    >Given that I could still be drastically wrong on any number of other
    >issues, what's up with immediate, pure, direct experience?
    >
    >Matt
    >
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