From: platootje@netscape.net
Date: Fri Jul 01 2005 - 08:29:39 BST
hampday@earthlink.net wrote:
> Neither time nor space is an "entity" in the way that a substantive object
> is an entity. These are properly considered the "dimensions" of existence
> (despite the fact that space comes in three of its own dimensions).
Yes, I've come to that same conclusion, but first I explore the possibility it is.
> We
> experience space as the absence of substance.
With that I disagree. I think we experience space because we experience substance. In an empty universe there would be no space to experience.
> In other words, it is
> nothingness. It is the nothingness that separates one thing from another in
> existence. This is critically important in understanding the intellect's
> ability to differentiate the particulars or "existents" of which it is
> sensible.
That I call dualisme, you need to be able to be aware of 'not the object' to be aware of 'the object'
An experience of 'A' will always be accompagnied by the experience of a possible 'not A'. This implies you need a limitation in either time or space of the experience. This implies you need a concept called time and space, but this makes space, in my opinion, not equal to nothingness.
> If you think of nothingness as the antithesis of absolute
> "beingness", you'll get some insight as to what Essence is. (Not a
> "definition", mind you, since what we call "being" is always finite.)
>
I see absolute beingness as you describe it as unity without any need for concepts like time and space. The antithesis would be duality, which is what we experience.
>
> When we attempt to explore the extremes of the cosmos we
> exceed the capacity of our intellect to make sense of it. That's the
> Heisenberg uncertainty principle. Human sensibility was not designed to
> comprehend truth beyond the range of finitude. I believe there is a reason
> for this that has to do with man's freedom. (You might want to read my
> Freedom section when you've digested the Creation Hypothesis.)
>
I've already read some of your hypothesis, and it's very interesting to say the least (although I must say it's not an easy read, rather academic and with lots of references to terminology I'm not aquainted with)
>> Most likely to consider space a concept then, it's [neither] matter nor
>
> energy. But a concept for what? More likely it's a concept the brain
> invented for survival.
>
> Or, that the Designer provided for philosophical insight?
I don't believe in a purpose behind it. I may believe that it is the result of our freedom of choice.
>
> I see some confusion in your thinking, not contradiction. I don't disagree
> with your analysis; I just think you need to enlarge upon it. If the MoQ
> helps you in this regard, more power to you. But don't expect Pirsig's
> concept of Quality to clarify matters.
>
Well.... reading Lila I recognized a lot of ideas. I still missed some, but the recognizion was so strong that I think Pirsig is onto something very good there. And he's very gifted in bringing it across. I don't have the ability to transalate into words what's in my mind.
> Let me provide a simple recipe. Ultimate reality is absolute and
> undifferentiated.
YES!
> Things in existence are conditional and differentiated by
> nothingness.
Well.... Things we experience are dualistic in time or space (e.g. there's a 'not A' for every experience of 'A')
> Time and space are the dimensions by which your intellect
> constructs the physical attributes of existence.
I think I agree
> Awareness of reality is
> proprietary to each individual. Without that awareness there would be no
> existence and no value. (Period.)
Hear hear
>
> Now you can go back to Pirsig and resume your confusion.;-)
>
I'm not afraid to say that yes I'm confused, but maybe not to the extend you may think :-)
> Regards,
> Ham
Best regards,
Reinier.
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