From: Horse (horse@darkstar.uk.net)
Date: Tue Aug 09 2005 - 01:20:36 BST
Hi Platt
On 7 Aug 2005 at 9:39, Platt Holden wrote:
> Hi Horse,
>
> PH previously:
> > > What I had in mind was the Brit's interrogation methods
> > > that have lead to further arrests. What those methods were I have no
> > > idea, nor do I care.
>
> Horse:
> > Well you really should do as the ends don't justify the means. Moral
> > outcomes are rarely, if ever, produced by immoral acts. Immoral acts are
> > immoral acts aren't they?
> >
> > As to the cops interrogation methods, I could be wrong but I doubt they
> > included torture or physical violence as this would not be good for their
> > image if it got out and considering the damage it's done in the past and
> > the miscarriages of justice involved I think they'd be very careful. There
> > are better methods. It's of great importance to keep the Moslem community
> > in this country involved with working to stop terrorism. Alienating them
> > will lead to worse things and continue the cycle of violence. Just as it
> > has in other parts of the world.
>
> If a biological or chemical terrorist attack kills tens of thousands in
> Britain, I don't think you would care about our reputation and how we are
> viewed in the Muslim world.
I was talking about image and reputation of the British police in the UK. It's something
that they work very hard at and, as I said previously, given the disastrous results of
interrogation techniques back in the 70's and the resultant outcome this is not
something they are about to repeat.
As for Bio/Chem attacks I'd be more worried about our own products of bio-weapons
getting out or a contagious disease being brought in from abroad.
> Our interrogators should be permitted to
> employ every method of obtaining information that gets results.
Perhaps you're prepared to live in a country where police thuggery is seen as a good
thing. I'm not.
> I agree with Pirsig:
> "Intellectuals must find biological behavior, no matter what its ethnic
> connection, and limit or destroy destructive biological patterns with
> complete moral ruthlessness, the way a doctor destroys germs, before those
> biological patterns destroy civilization itself."
As usual you've placed the above out of context but even so, the way a doctor destroys
germs has nothing to do with destroying the patient. I don't know how you do things
where you live but if I go to the doctor with an illness I expect to get antibiotics or similar
not a bullet in the head! Your methods are exactly that. I can't see anywhere in the
above, or anywhere else in Lila, where Pirsig supports destriction of all patterns in order
to suppress or destroy biological patterns. There's more subtlety involved than you
seem to realise.
>
> Your Prime Minister seems to understand this. As for the Muslim community
> working to stop terrorism, they have shown little inclination to do so. If
> they were serious about ending it, terrorism would cease to be a threat.
It seems to me that in the UK the Muslim community for the most part abhors the
terrorist attacks as much as everyone else. To suggest otherwise is pure bigotry. Where
I live there's a large Muslim community and those that I've talked to are angry that Islam
is being used in this way. Perhaps you need to get out and about a bit more and talk to
the people you're so fond of slandering.
Cheers
Horse
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