From: Mr. Spears (dspears@toucansurf.net)
Date: Sat Oct 15 2005 - 17:38:02 BST
no. value is between. s and o. experience, as they say, is a whol,e
other ktal of fash.
On 13 Oct 2005, at 13:21, Platt Holden wrote:
> Ian, Matt et al:
>
> Pirsig makes it crystal clear that valuing and experience are
> inseparable:
>
> "This value is more immediate, more directly sensed than any "self' or
> any
> "object" to which it might be later assigned. It is more real than the
> stove. Whether the stove is the cause of the low quality or whether
> possibly something else is the cause is not yet absolutely certain. But
> that the quality is low is absolutely certain. It is the primary
> empirical
> reality from which such things as stoves and heat and oaths and self
> are
> later intellectually constructed." (Lila, 5)
>
> I liken Pirsig's value to qualia -- immediate apprehensions of
> vibrations
> such as the color and smell of a rose. Daniel Dennet defines qualia
> thusly:
>
> Qualia are:
>
> 1. ineffable; that is, they cannot be communicated, or apprehended
> by
> any other means than direct experience.
> 2. intrinsic; that is, they are non-relational properties, which do
> not
> change depending on the experience's relation to other things.
> 3. private; that is, all interpersonal comparisons of qualia are
> systematically impossible.
> 4. directly or immediately apprehensible in consciousness; that is,
> to
> experience a quale is to know one experiences a quale, and to know all
> there is to know about that quale.
>
> Isn't that an accurate description of Pirsig's Quality? I think so.
>
> Quality is a sense like other senses. It is what you know before you
> know
> anything else. It is never (to use a favorite word of academic types)
> "mediated" by concepts of any kind. It is as plain, direct and self-
> evident as the difference between black and white, light and dark,
> figure
> and ground. It is the sense of good and bad.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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