Re: MD FW: The intellectual level and rationality

From: Scott Roberts (jse885@localnet.com)
Date: Wed Nov 16 2005 - 17:28:47 GMT

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    Bo,

    Some obvious objections:

    Bo said:
    Different premises can give rise to different conclusion without
    logic itself being faulty. I should have used "subject/object
    premises" to delineate the intellectual level.

    Scott:
    This would make all philosophers (except Descartes) non-intellectual, since
    philosophers are those who question premises. I think you have a valid point
    that most people most of the time act as if S/O[1] were true, that that is
    their premise (what philosophers call the "natural attitude"). There is also
    a valid point (shared with Barfield) that intellect and S/O[1] dualism arose
    together (that S/O makes intellect possible in human development). But it is
    also the intellect that can question the natural S/O attitude, and has, and
    has proposed different premises, and can lead us out of the natural S/O
    attitude. The MOQ is only a recent example of this questioning and attempt
    at replacement. Thus I think you could justifiably say that the S/O[1]
    premises are the basis of the fourth level, but it is silly to call it the
    intellectual level. Intellect has the capability of transcending all levels
    (all premises).

    Bo said:
    To expand logic itself is hardly possible but shifting premises
    (that logic uses to arrive at conclusions) is possible, and my - um
    - logic is that the different Q-levels can be regarded as different
    "premises".

    Scott:
    Which puts logic outside of all levels, which must make it part of DQ.

    Bo said (to Rebecca):
    Yes you are right, SOL says that S/O is the 4th level's premises,
    thus MOQ's DQ/SQ premises is something beyond, and for
    goodness sake Rebecca the 4th level is supposed to be STATIC.
    The tendency to regard it as a mental compartment where an
    endless succession of ideas fights for the top perch is
    inconsistent with anything static.

    Scott:
    Isn't the word for "fighting for ideas", which is anything but static,
    intellect?

    Bo said:
    Yes from the said Q-premises which sees intellect for what it
    really is: Just another static level.

    Scott:
    So do you claim that Pirsig used something other than intellect to come up
    with the MOQ? Or must we treat the MOQ as revelation?

    - Scott

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