From: Platt Holden (pholden@sc.rr.com)
Date: Sun Jul 20 2003 - 14:55:00 BST
DMB
> Platt said:
> My solution, at least for the present, is where intellect stops, values
> begin.
>
> dmb says:
> Oh, really? Then why does Pirsig call them intellectual patterns of VALUE?
> Why does he so often use the phrase "intellectual values"? If values only
> begin where intellect stops, then why does he refer to the intellectual
> level as the highest level of static quality. Values go all the way up and
> down. That's all there is.
Correction. When intellect inevitably gets locked up in paradox patterns,
undefinable Dynamic Quality shatters them.
> Platt said:
> For me, thinking that worries about what society thinks is dominated by the
> social level. Thinking that cares less about what others think but follows
> "objective" standards like mathematics, logic, computer programs,
> scientific studies, etc. is dominated by intellectual values.
>
> dmb says:
> How about sociologist? Don't they worry about what society thinks? How
> about political scientists? I get your point, but wouldn't it a little
> better to say something like,... People dominated by social values are
> conformists who do not seriously question convention. They are often
> religious and patriotic.
They are often also voter blocks, like blacks, union members and trial
lawyers.
> They're usually interested in age-old
> uncontroversial goals like power, fame, fortune, honor, etc. I mean, it
> seems there are several ten of millions of examples, hundereds of which are
> on TV or are otherwise widely known. If we want to talk about specific
> examples, there is no shortage. Let's start with the millions who call
> themselves Christians or conservatives. I think its safe to say that you'll
> find lots of examples there.
Also include atheists and liberals. You'll find many more millions of
examples there.
Platt
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