Re: MD The MOQ: An expansion of rationality

From: Steve Peterson (peterson.steve@verizon.net)
Date: Sat Dec 20 2003 - 13:09:10 GMT

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    Hi Bo,

    I wasn't clear when I said:
    >> In other words, rather than create a whole new level, you could have
    >> instead reasoned as Pirsig did that subjects and objects are patterns
    >> of value that fit perfectly in the fourth level
    >
    > Does Pirsig say that subjects and objects belong to the intellectual
    > level?

    I didn't want to say that subject and objects belong to the intellectual
    level. I need to distinguish symbols and their referents to be more clear.

    Intellect is the manipulation of symbols in both the MOQ and SOM. The
    difference is that in SOM, these symbols stand for subjects and objects
    while in the MOQ these symbols stand for patterns of value. Symbols that
    stand for patterns of value also include symbols that stand for subjects and
    objects which are redefined as patterns of value and understood as
    intellectual creations. ("Laws of logic, of mathematics [I would add
    'subjects and objects'] are ... human inventions, like ghosts. The whole
    blessed thing is a human invention, including the idea that it isn't a human
    invention.") The "root expansion" of intellect is a way of reasoning that
    can deal with subjects and objects but can also deal with values. So the
    intellectual level contains both the SOM and the MOQ.

    >> as characterized by
    >> manipulations of abstract symbols that stand for patterns of
    >> experience.
    >
    > Symbols versus patterns of experience is SOM in a moqish garb,
    > subjective symbols versus objective experience. Had it said "the
    > value of a symbol/experience distinction" it would have been
    > perfect.

    I'm fine with thinking of intellect in terms of a symbol/experience
    distinction though I don't buy your claim that symbols are subjective and
    experience objective.

    Thanks,
    Steve

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