MD Science and Religion

From: David Buchanan (DBuchanan@ClassicalRadio.org)
Date: Tue Feb 17 2004 - 03:40:52 GMT

  • Next message: Matthew Poot: "Re: MD SQ-SQ tension in Mozart's Symphony No38"

    Thanks for the quotes, Paul. I think I'll do something with them - later...

    (from Ant's Textbook)
    "Quality can be equated with God, but I don't like to do so. 'God', to
    most people, is a set of static intellectual and social patterns. Only
    true religious mystics can correctly equate God with Dynamic Quality. In
    the West, particularly around universities, these people are quite rare.
    The others who go around saying 'God wants this,' or 'God will answer
    your prayers,' are, according to the Metaphysics of Quality, engaging in
    a minor form of evil. Such statements are a lower form of evolution,
    intellectual patterns, attempting to contain a higher one." [Pirsig,
    1994]

    Pirsig in Lila chapter 30:
    "He thought about how once this integration occurs and DQ is identified
    with religious mysticism it produces an avalanche of information as to
    what Dynamic Quality is. A lot of this religious mysticism is just
    low-grade "yelping about God" of course, but if you search for the
    sources of it and don't take the yelps too literally a lot of
    interesting things turn up."

    "The idea that God can hear one's prayers can be meaningful only if one
    assumes that God is a social and intellectual entity. The Buddhist
    "nothingness" does not listen to prayers. It has no discernible social
    or intellectual existence. Dynamic Quality also does not listen to
    prayers. It also has no discernible social or intellectual existence. If
    one considers the Bible to be the center of the Christian faith then it
    is evident that the Christian faith is dominantly social. Attention is
    sometimes drawn to various mystical statements in the Bible, but the
    fact that attention has to be drawn to them indicates how rare they are.
    Read any book of the Bible and count the number of lines classifiable as
    mystic, the number classifiable as intellectual, and the number
    classifiable as social. Then read the Tao Te Ching or the Buddhist
    sutras or the Bhagavad Gita and do the same. Compare the results and I
    think you will come to the conclusion that Christianity is dominantly
    social and intellectual whereas these Eastern religions are dominantly
    mystic." [Pirsig, 2000]

    "Dialectic, which is the parent of logic, came itself from rhetoric.
    Rhetoric is in turn the child of the myths and poetry of ancient Greece.
    That is so historically, and that is so by any application of common
    sense. The poetry and the myths are the response of a prehistoric people
    to the universe around them made on the basis of Quality. It is Quality,
    not dialectic, which is the generator of everything we know." [ZMMp.391]

    "Every time you discover for the first time that something is better
    than something else, that is where Dynamic Quality exists. There is no
    fixed static location for it." [Robert Pirsig, Letter to Ant, February
    23, 1998]

    "Dynamic Quality is a stream of quality events going on and on forever,
    always at the cutting edge of the present. But in the wake of this
    cutting edge are static patterns of value. These are memories, customs
    and patterns of nature. The reason there is a difference between
    individual evaluations of quality is that although Dynamic Quality is a
    constant, these static patterns are different for everyone because each
    person has a different static pattern of life history. Both the Dynamic
    Quality and the static patterns influence his final judgment." [SODV p.13]

    "Intellectual quality measurements are logic, fittingness to empirical
    data, economy of statement, and what is sometimes called 'elegance' by
    mathematicians. Social quality measurements of quality, by contrast, are
    such things as conformity to social custom, popularity, ego
    satisfaction, and 'reputation'. Biological standards are physical pain
    and pleasure." [Pirsig, 1998]

    "[T]he Metaphysics of Quality says that Dynamic Quality - the
    value-force that chooses an elegant mathematical solution to a laborious
    one, or a brilliant experiment over a confusing, inconclusive one - is
    another matter altogether. Dynamic Quality is a higher moral order than
    static scientific truth.." [Lila p.418]

    from Ant's Textbook.
    "The MOQ never says that the intellectual level is just the inorganic
    level in disguise. The only reason the SOM people say that, I think, is
    that they are trying to prove that everything is inorganic in order to
    satisfy the demands of materialism. But in the MOQ all the levels are
    embedded in quality and they don't need to be embedded in each other."
    (Pirsig, 2001b)

    "It's clear I've been of two minds on whether subjects and objects
    should be included in the MOQ. My earlier view, when I was concentrating
    on the confusion of subject-object thinking, was to get rid of them
    entirely to help clarify things. Later I began to see it's not necessary
    to get rid of them because the MOQ can encase them neatly within its
    structure-the upper two levels being subjective, and the lower two,
    objective. Still later I saw that the subject-object distinction is very
    useful for sharply distinguishing between biological and social levels.

    If I had been more careful in my editing, I would have eliminated or
    modified the earlier statements to bring them into agreement with the
    latter ones. However I missed these and it's valuable that the Lila
    Squad has caught them." [Lila's Child p.531]

    "Scientists often forget that all scientific knowledge is subjective
    knowledge based on experience, although science does not deny that this
    is true." [Pirsig, Lila's Child p.178]

    MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
    Mail Archives:
    Aug '98 - Oct '02 - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
    Nov '02 Onward - http://www.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/summary.html
    MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net

    To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
    http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html



    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Tue Feb 17 2004 - 03:44:52 GMT