From: Phaedrus Wolff (PhaedrusWolff@carolina.rr.com)
Date: Tue Jan 11 2005 - 22:52:01 GMT
Platt)I've noticed on several occasions that you've said the answers to
moral
questions and other knowledge is "in" us if we only look deep enough
within. Why do you suppose we have this knowledge deep down? Is it because
we are made by Cosmic Intelligence?
Chin)Now that's an easy one to answer. I don't have the vaguest idea - and
anyone who claims to know belongs in prison or a mental facility or at the
head of the class.
I know people get upset here when you speak of "Cosmic Intelligence," or the
brain and mind separately, or the idea of a master mind at the center of the
universe is going to upset them even more.
I have to ask - What is this show of emotion all about? I've seen bikers who
hated other gangs less than Christians are hated here.
To me, Judeo-Christian, Islam, or Deity Zen is just as likely to hold the
key as science or astrology, or Humanity Zen, Nature Zen, or Nature
spirituality - or mathematics. It seems the question of mathematics being
the immortal principle has not been settled.
I understand avoiding speak of God, as Christians will accept only the
writings of the Bible they have accepted from interpretations that allow no
variances in their church beliefs is a stumbling block that is more
difficult to get across than the blindfold dmb claims I have on. As we also
do not accept science as the 'Nous', that only leaves philosophical debate,
or astrological faith/science (whatever you choose to call it). I'm sure
most of us, except for the Native Americans are going to deny any serious
belief in astrology.
So what we are left with is philosophy, which I am finding most want to
place rules of engagement on, so we must lend ourselves on faith that the
philosophers of the past, since they have written, or been written about
hold at least the map.
I find MOQ offers the better map, and Quality, or DQ can fit into any belief
system including science.
Common sense (non-specialist) would tell you that we are social creatures.
We work longer hours just so we can hold material things to make our
appearance more socially pleasing. Even here, I feel some of the best
writers are looking for 'Atta-boys,' and get upset because they feel they
are being 'dissed' by someone who does not agree with their take on the MOQ.
I can't even say that it is a cosmic enlightenment we are searching for, but
can't say with any certainty it is not either.
This peeling away, or suspending the ego in whatever matter seems to be
required in any faith based religions or philosophies. If you think back all
the way to Socrates, where most these religions and philosophies started,
his 'Devine intervention' came after stripping himself of the need for
material things, status, and/or any of the other ego filled emotions except
for Beauty.
If I may take this a bit further, it seems to be a matter of 'Madness of
crowds' or lemming like socializing that has led us, both in the West and
East into the confusion that it matters more to set yourself up for a better
life after you are dead from this world than to accept your place in the
continuous living and dying out of processes which continue to grow into
something more dynamic than it was to begin with, is better than just
accepting what is going to happen to you, and make the most of it.
What did Socrates have that we don't? Why did he not fear death?
There wasn't any Bibles lying around for him to peer into, and he denied the
gods had powers over him. He stood on principles of state to the final end
that the state would offer true justice, even though it appeared it had
failed him.
I have to think that what saved him the fear of death is that he knew he had
contributed to the advancement of the society he lived in. Long before the
MOQ, he recognized society was the highest moral consideration, and by
speaking to the young, and teaching the young how to think for themselves,
he was leaving this society more better - more Quality.
I'll leave it there for now. How do you feel (oops) er, uh, perceive these
thoughts. :o)
Chin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>; <owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk>
Sent: Tuesday, January 11, 2005 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: MD The MOQ and Mysticism 101
> Hi Chin:
>
> The definition of "intuition" From Merriam-Webster:
> >
> > "1 : quick and ready insight
> > 2 a : immediate apprehension or cognition b : knowledge or conviction
> > gained by intuition c : the power or faculty of attaining to direct
> > knowledge or cognition without evident rational thought and inference"
>
> > (Platt) Intuition is knowledge, cognition without thought, or as I've
said, what we
> > know before we know anything else.
>
> > Chin)I would agree intuition is before conscious thought, but not above
> > abilities of conscious thought; just abilities of conscious knowing.
> >
> > Though there was a little wink, wink, style sarcasm in that statement,
it
> > was not meant to deny the fact that philosophology has confused concepts
> > such as intuition. I feel we may have been better off if the
philosophers
> > would have left the meaning of intuition alone. Maybe I am beginning to
> > believe it may be better to do so myself.
>
> (Platt) I'm also beginning to believe it's best to leave the meaning of
> intuition alone. We know what it is, but like Beauty, we can't really
> define it. Mysticism is like that, too. Certainly on this forum we've seen
> many different versions of what mysticism means, ranging from common
> everyday experience to a transformative awakening.
>
> > The original definition for intuition before Socrates of the sophists
was
> > that this direct knowing was grasp by the way of intelligence as opposed
to
> > the senses. This is what I meant by intuition being like a nonverbal
> > learning disorder. You already have this knowledge in you, it is just a
> > matter of bringing it out.
>
> I've noticed on several occasions that you've said the answers to moral
> questions and other knowledge is "in" us if we only look deep enough
> within. Why do you suppose we have this knowledge deep down? Is it because
> we are made by Cosmic Intelligence?
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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