Re: MD The SOL fallacy was the intelligence fallacy (was Rhetoric)

From: skutvik@online.no
Date: Thu Oct 13 2005 - 07:32:53 BST

  • Next message: skutvik@online.no: "Re: MD The 4th level renamed?"

    Ian.

    11 Oct. you wrote:

    > I agree with Mark here, which is very close to the aspects of Bo I
    > alreay agreed with. It's about pragmatically making the best out of
    > the resources available to us.

    You agree with Mark, which is very close ...etc." I guess you will
    be reprimanded by him soon.
     
    > The fourth level is already intellectual ...
    > GOF Aristotelian Rationality is just one SPV (mainly) in that level.
    > "Rationality" is a wider set of SPV's (mainly) in that level.
     
    MOQ's fourth level is the intellectual level, that much we know.
    We also know that ZMM saw Aristotle as part of the SOM, more
    particular the father of its objective aspect (science)

        "At that moment our modern scientific understanding of
        reality was born." (ZMM page 374).

    LILA mostly treats this scientific aspect, but now as part of
    intellect!

        "The doctrine of scientific disconnection from social
        morals goes all the way back to the ancient Greek belief
        that thought is independent of society, that it stands
        alone, born without parents. Ancient Greeks such as
        Socrates and Pythagoras paved the way for the
        fundamental principle behind science: that truth stands
        independently of social opinion". (LILA p 304)

    What claims independence from social value if not intellect? And
    what goes back to the Greeks if not SOM? Science is here
    presented as just one intellectual pattern blind to its social origin,
    but if science is blind so is the whole intellectual level. Which is
    the point: Intellect is just another static level. It is from the MOQ
    "level" this context is seen.
      
    > The Intellectual level is therefore more than either Aristotelian
    > Rationality or SOMism or Rationality ...

    Yes, as shown above, intellect (the S/O value) is more than the
    'O', the 'S' is part of the rationality that says that reality is so
    divided. The empiricists (Berkeley) arrived at the conclusion that
    the subject is the creator of the external world, so there are plenty
    of subjective "rationalists".

    > it's something pretty close
    > to the MoQ itself - the ultimate intellectual pattern in this scheme.
    > (We cannot escape the recursion - we are using intellect to define
    > intellect - it's not a problem.)

    I am (also) of the opinion that the MOQ is the ultimate intellectual
    pattern that has begun on "a purpose of its own", formed a
    Quality Reality which we begin to see the outline of. The MOQ
    "document" however will always remain intellectual.

    Bo

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