Re: MD It sounds a bit like memes

From: David MOREY (us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk)
Date: Wed Nov 19 2003 - 18:29:20 GMT

  • Next message: Steve Peterson: "Re: MD matt said scott said"

    Hi

    extinction would be one way.
    Essentially you are asking if SQ can be
    released and replaced again by DQ.
    What do you think? What does intelligence do in these terms?
    What is adaptation? etc

    DM

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Nathan Pila" <pila@sympatico.ca>
    To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:38 PM
    Subject: MD It sounds a bit like memes

    > David,
    >
    > Quite a concept this morphic field idea. Instinct is therefore an example
    of
    > a morphic field. So, my question is can a habit change once it is formed
    and
    > what is the method whereby it does change.
    >
    > Nathan
    >
    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:54 PM
    > Subject: Re: MD It is ALIVE!!
    >
    >
    > > Nathan
    > >
    > > This is asking the right questions.
    > > But how do you tell that something has intentional states?
    > > Does not sticking to the rules imply wilL or chance rather than
    > > predictable causality? Agency, I think, is all about having
    > > possibilities (plural) rather than only a single possibility (where we
    > > ascribe classic causality). The Earth, of course, is full of
    possibilities
    > > because life effects the Earth's future. So it gets complex. What is so
    > > characteristic about human agency is its individuality, such that we are
    > > structured in our conscious existence by having certain individual
    > > possibilities:
    > > shall I go for a walk, do this job, marry this woman, etc. Maybe, when
    we
    > > ask
    > > is the Earth alive, we are limited by having a rather human perspective
    on
    > > what
    > > agency is. Take a look at this to open up some different ideas for you
    > about
    > > cosmic processes:
    > >
    > > http://www.levity.com/mavericks/rupert.htm
    > >
    > > regards
    > > David M
    > >
    > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > From: "Nathan Pila" <pila@sympatico.ca>
    > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 9:06 PM
    > > Subject: MD It is ALIVE!!
    > >
    > >
    > > > David,
    > > >
    > > > I know that there are some people who want to say that the earth is
    > alive.
    > > > But for me, I would say it is not alive. One of the attributes of
    living
    > > > creatures is intentionality. That is, in a living organism, there is
    > > > something other than matter. There is for lack of a better word,
    > something
    > > I
    > > > will call "WILL". Something that is alive has some autonomy and can
    > > violate
    > > > rules if it so chooses to.
    > > >
    > > > I may have a thousand reasons to do X; it may be in my best interests
    > and
    > > > yet decide to do Y just because I want to. The earth is just is; it
    sits
    > > > there and is acted upon.
    > > >
    > > > Do you agree with any of this?
    > > >
    > > > Nathan
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > Sent: Monday, November 17, 2003 10:07 AM
    > > > Subject: Re: MD what is life?
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > Hi
    > > > >
    > > > > The earth is an interesting one. Not what we would usually
    > > > > think of as an organism. Life has done a good job at making
    > > > > the earth inhabitable. And the stability of the environment for
    > > > > maintaining life is impressive. It is also a very complex total
    system
    > > > > interacting with the space environment. Where purposeful activity
    > > > > is involved in this is hard to say, I would not dismis it on
    > > metaphysical
    > > > > grounds as per SOM too quickly. It needs investigating. What do you
    > > think?
    > > > >
    > > > > regards
    > > > > David M
    > > > >
    > > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > > From: "Nathan Pila" <pila@sympatico.ca>
    > > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 11:03 PM
    > > > > Subject: Re: MD what is life?
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > > David,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Using what you wrote, would you say that the earth is alive as a
    > > > organism?
    > > > > > And what about a liver cell? Is it alive?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Regards, Nathan
    > > > > >
    > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > > > From: "David MOREY" <us@divadeus.freeserve.co.uk>
    > > > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 11:37 AM
    > > > > > Subject: Re: MD what is life?
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > > Hi
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Seems easy to me, life fills all the levels of complexity
    > > > > > > after those that create the most determinate level of matter.
    > > > > > > Life exhibits a level of free activity above that which is only
    > > > > > > concerned with the contingent interaction of elements.
    > > > > > > Life makes a use of its environment. There is also a use
    > > > > > > from energy to particles to atoms to molecules but we
    > > > > > > do not call this life because the movement is away from free
    > > > > > > movement towards heavy, stationary, gravity loving, and
    determined
    > > > > > > elements, the most static patterns that exist.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > regards
    > > > > > > David M
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
    > > > > > > From: "Magnus Berg" <McMagnus@home.se>
    > > > > > > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
    > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2003 10:18 AM
    > > > > > > Subject: re: MD what is life?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Hi Nathan
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > I mostly lurk nowadays but if you are interested in my take on
    > > life,
    > > > > > feel
    > > > > > > free to read "A classicist's road to the Metaphysics of Quality"
    > in
    > > > the
    > > > > > MoQ
    > > > > > > forum:
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > http://www.moq.org/forum/magnus/magnus.html
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > Magnus
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > "Nathan Pila" <pila@sympatico.ca> wrote:
    > > > > > > > __________
    > > > > > > > >Hi there Steve,
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >Well, I would assert that the study of "life" is worthwhile
    > even
    > > if
    > > > > it
    > > > > > is
    > > > > > > an
    > > > > > > > >illusion. Right now, a definition that is accepted by
    everyone
    > > has
    > > > > yet
    > > > > > to
    > > > > > > be
    > > > > > > > >formulated. How can one tell if some material is "alive".
    What
    > > > > > properties
    > > > > > > > >would such material exhibit?
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >How would you, (Steve)/ (or anyone else) /define 'life'? I am
    > > aware
    > > > > > that
    > > > > > > I
    > > > > > > > >am not being fair here in that this question is easy to state
    > and
    > > > > > > terribly
    > > > > > > > >difficult to answer. But if you have the time, I would be
    > > > interested
    > > > > in
    > > > > > > some
    > > > > > > > >of the properties that you think 'life' has. I have some
    views
    > on
    > > > the
    > > > > > > > >subject based on some stuff I've read. But I would like to
    hear
    > > > what
    > > > > > you
    > > > > > > > >write first.
    > > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > > >Regards, Nathan
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
    > > > > > > >
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