From: ant.mcwatt@ntlworld.com
Date: Mon Jan 05 2004 - 05:12:54 GMT
Ant said:
Ultimately, static forms in the MOQ are thought to be essentially intellectual constructions applied to a Dynamic ever-changing reality.
David M said:
I have a problem with this. And it is the thing I most felt reading your PhD paper. I am very keen to get DQ recognised, I am quite happy to say ultimately everything is subject to change and dissolution, but SQ has to have a stronger basis than the above. Intellectual constructions of what?
A good question as I think it points to the fundamental division (as Northrop, 1946, p.450 notes) between Eastern and Western philosophy.
Anyway, to answer your question:
If you were Plato, you would state that the (eternal) Forms are what intellectual constructions are pointing to. While, of course, Aristotle would say substance.
If you were Pirsig, you would say value. Having the “Forms” (as static patterns) inhered in value, at least avoids the separation of appearance and reality and is one of the reasons why I prefer the MOQ to the idea of Platonic Forms. I expand on this subject in Section 2.8 of the PhD Textbook.
Another point worth keeping in mind is that Buddhist thought tends to view reality as neither an oneness nor a manyness. Hence, the two implied viewpoints found in the MOQ; the Dynamic/mystic viewpoint where everything is DQ (and, therefore new and original) and the static/metaphysical viewpoint where DQ and SQ are distinct (and patterns can form).
I’d also have a look at what Khoo hock aun states about this distinction in his posts to MOQ Discuss during December 2003. For instance:
“Pirsig's introduction of an undefined Dynamic Quality in Lila serves to illustrate, in my view, the residual, underlying fundamental nature of an uncreated and unmanifested universe that cannot be measured, perceived and identified by the senses. In Buddhism, the letting go of a pattern, of any pattern, is considered good, and each step in this direction is a step taken towards realising nirvana or in my view, Dynamic Quality. Dynamic Quality here is, as Static Quality is - neutral. The morality of our actions hence is determined by the degree with which we cling on to static quality (patterns of any value) or release a static quality (patterns of any value) of its hold on our imagined ‘selves’.” (Khoo hock aun to MOQ Discuss, Dec 24th 2003)
Finally, it would be an error to get too attached to either the static or Dynamic viewpoints found in the MOQ. Remember the section in ZMM where the narrator discusses gravity being a ghost? Well, the Buddha had a pretty neat ghost story as well:
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A man was very afraid of ghosts. And unfortunately he had to pass the cemetery every day, coming and going. And sometimes he was late, and in the night he had to pass the cemetery. His house was behind the cemetery, and very close to it. And he was so afraid of ghosts that his life was a constant torture. He could not sleep: the whole night he was disturbed by the ghosts. Sometimes they were knocking on the doors, and sometimes moving inside the house, and he could hear their footsteps and their whisperings. Sometimes they would come very close to him and he could even feel their breath. He was in a constant hell.
He went to a master, and the master said, "This is nothing. You have come to the right person." Just like I say to you! "Take this mantra - this is enough, and you need not be worried. You just put this mantra in a small golden box and carry the box always. You can hang it around your neck."
It is just like a locket: it is a mantra like the magic box that I give to sannyasins who are going far away from me. The master said, "You keep this mantra. You need not even repeat it; it is so potent that it need not be repeated. You just keep it in the box. Keep the box with you and no ghost will ever trouble you." And it really happened: that day the man passed through the cemetery almost as if he was going for a morning walk. Never before had it been so easy. He used to run! He used to scream and shout, and he had to sing songs while passing. That day he walked very slowly with the box in his hand, and it really worked! No ghosts. He was even standing in the middle of the cemetery, waiting for somebody to come, and no ghost turned up. It was utter silence.
Then the man went home. He put the box underneath his pillow. That night nobody knocked on the door, nobody whispered, nobody came close to him. That was the first time in his whole life that he slept well. It was a great mantra. But now he became too attached to the box. He could not leave it anywhere, the whole day he had to carry it everywhere.
People started asking, "Why do you go on carrying this box?"
And he said, "This is my safety, my security."
He became so afraid that now if some day this box was lost, "I will be in great trouble, and those ghosts will take great revenge!" Eating - and he had his box. And in the toilet - he had his box. Making love to his woman - and he had his box. He was going crazy! And now the fear was too much: if it is stolen, if somebody plays a trick or if he loses it somewhere, or if something happens to the box, then what? "Then for months those ghosts are hankering to create trouble for me! They will jump upon me from everywhere, and they will kill me!"
The master inquired one day about how things were going.
The man said, "Everything is good. Everything is perfectly good, but now I am being tortured by my own fears. Again I cannot sleep. The whole night I have to see whether the box is still there. Again and again I have to wake myself up and search for the box. And if sometimes it slips here and there in the bed and I cannot find... it is so frightening! I get so scared!"
The master said, "Now I will give you another mantra. Throw away this box."
Then the man said, "Then how am I going to protect myself from the ghosts?"
The master said, "They are not there. This box is just nonsense. Those ghosts are not there; that's why this box has worked. Those ghosts are only in your imagination. If they were really there they would not be afraid of the box. It is just your idea, those ghosts were your idea. Now you have got a better idea, because you have got a master. And the master has given you a box, a magic spell. Now be more understanding: the ghosts are not there, that's why this box has helped. Now there is no need to get so obsessed with the box. Throw it away!"
(From the Heart Sutra, #9)
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Finally, over the weekend, I’ve managed to have read about a third of your “Secret of Matter” book and found it very readable. I’ll post specific points about it to you in the next day or so.
Best wishes,
Anthony.
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